Programmable Delco Ignition Module

[Dylan]

Thanks, just to confirm are normal LS2 coils ok? Any different to LS1 type?

[warrjon]

This looks like it might be exactly what I need. Firstly I am restoring a Jaguar XJS V12 and will be rebuilding a spare engine I have for better performance.

From what I understand this module will allow me to run the V12 with 1 say VY ECU in batch fire with wasted spark. Is this CORRECT.


Is it available yet and how do I go about purchasing it

thanks in advance Warren

[antus]

That will work for 12 cylinders of ignition. If an 808 ecu would be a better option is worth considering and you should be aware that the ecu does not natively suport 12 cylinders for fuelling so you'll probably need to treat it like a 6. We can help but it will be harder than a 4 6 or 8, and results should be better than the stock ecu but might be compromised. Come to think of it, I wonder if throttlebody injection would be a better way to do it.

[VL400]

From what I understand this module will allow me to run the V12 with 1 say VY ECU in batch fire with wasted spark. Is this CORRECT.

Do you know what type of trigger config the jag has with the factory ECU? Crank or dizzy? The pattern (ie missing tooth, extra tooth, ref+sync..)? if its a hall or reluctor sensor?

[warrjon]

From what I understand this module will allow me to run the V12 with 1 say VY ECU in batch fire with wasted spark. Is this CORRECT.

Do you know what type of trigger config the jag has with the factory ECU? Crank or dizzy? The pattern (ie missing tooth, extra tooth, ref+sync..)? if its a hall or reluctor sensor?

It has a 3 tooth crank wheel and VR sensor, 2 coils and a dual input distributor and Marelli ignition ECU separate from the injection ECU.

My plan is to replace the distributor with coil packs as the cap and rotor are NLA as OEM. I also want to be able tune both ignition and fuel, with the Marelli ignition timing is set in the ECU and CAN NOT be changed without reprogramming, rotating the distributor does nothing to change timing.

I have no problem using 36-1 wheel and 2 VR sensors 60deg apart. I know this has been done before using 2x808's. I have a VY ECU so was wondering if I could use 2 of these with 36-1 or do they need the dual trigger wheel?

What hardware would you recommend?

thanks Warren

[warrjon]

That will work for 12 cylinders of ignition. If an 808 ecu would be a better option is worth considering and you should be aware that the ecu does not natively suport 12 cylinders for fuelling so you'll probably need to treat it like a 6. We can help but it will be harder than a 4 6 or 8, and results should be better than the stock ecu but might be compromised. Come to think of it, I wonder if throttlebody injection would be a better way to do it.

All XJS V12 are fuel injected, my car is an 89 model with Marelli electronic ignition, the ignition works as 2 separate I6 systems, it has 2 coils 1 for each bank and a dual distributor, with 2 inputs and 2 outputs on the rotor. I do want to replace the distributor with coil packs on my new engine.

I don't think TB injection would be easy the V12 uses dual intake manifolds with dual TB's and I would need to block the injector bungs in the manifolds. Fuel I don't think is an issue as I can run batch fire. The stock fuel ECU runs 4 batches of 3 injectors.

[VL400]

It has a 3 tooth crank wheel and VR sensor, 2 coils and a dual input distributor and Marelli ignition ECU separate from the injection ECU.

The 3 tooth trigger wont be suitable for running multiple coils. Even with the programmable module it needs to have more pulses. There are two reasons for this, firstly on multiple coil setups there needs to be a way to ID cyl #1, a cam sensor or extra tooth can be used for that. But the other issue is due to the way the delco handles spark during cranking, if a 3 tooth trigger is used then teeth must occur at about 10deg to allow the engine to start, but on multiple coil setups the ref tooth must occur before the max possible spark (ie at least 45deg BTDC) so the ECU can take control from the ign module once the engine is running. So there needs to be a minimum of 6 teeth, one at 45-70ish BTDC and one at 10deg to fire the coil during cranking. Can have more than 6 teeth but not less, the module can be configured to ignore teeth.

My plan is to replace the distributor with coil packs as the cap and rotor are NLA as OEM. I also want to be able tune both ignition and fuel, with the Marelli ignition timing is set in the ECU and CAN NOT be changed without reprogramming, rotating the distributor does nothing to change timing.

I have no problem using 36-1 wheel and 2 VR sensors 60deg apart. I know this has been done before using 2x808's. I have a VY ECU so was wondering if I could use 2 of these with 36-1 or do they need the dual trigger wheel?

What hardware would you recommend?

thanks Warren

Using any Delco you will need to set it as a 6cyl as none currently support more than 8 cyl. Anything that is RPM based will read incorrectly but can be rescaled in TunerPro to make it appear correct. Your easiest option would be an aftermarket ECU that supports 12 cyl but if you are set on getting it running on a delco it is possible with either one or two ECUs.

- Programmable module with a few options for triggering and could run a single VY PCM (only thing will be the injector driver being capable of driving pairs) with 12 coils in wasted spark. There will be a few RPM based things that may end up too high and outof range of what can be adjusted.
- Could adapt 2 factory 6 cyl DIS modules using 2 crank sensors and two ECUs. Some info on the DIS modules are here http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=128.

Either way it wont be a simple task!

[antus]

But I'd like to see you try and we can help, and if you can do it and document it there will be a lot of V12 jag owners who will thank you for it.

[warrjon]

But I'd like to see you try and we can help, and if you can do it and document it there will be a lot of V12 jag owners who will thank you for it.

I am on a pretty tight budget and MS would run between $1-2K , (spent way too much on the body) So I will give it a go, I am an electronics tech so I think I can, I think I can, I think I can - slap.

[warrjon]

The 3 tooth trigger wont be suitable for running multiple coils. Even with the programmable module it needs to have more pulses. There are two reasons for this, firstly on multiple coil setups there needs to be a way to ID cyl #1, a cam sensor or extra tooth can be used for that. But the other issue is due to the way the delco handles spark during cranking, .

Thats What I suspected, Jaguar used some elaborate algorithm to calculate TDC of each pot.

Using any Delco you will need to set it as a 6cyl as none currently support more than 8 cyl. Anything that is RPM based will read incorrectly but can be rescaled in TunerPro to make it appear correct. Your easiest option would be an aftermarket ECU that supports 12 cyl but if you are set on getting it running on a delco it is possible with either one or two ECUs.

There are not a lot ECU's that natively support V12's that do not cost in-excess of $2K

Could adapt 2 factory 6 cyl DIS modules using 2 crank sensors and two ECUs. Some info on the DIS modules are here http://pcmhacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=128.

Either way it wont be a simple task!

Thanks for the link - I had a good read and as I understand I need 2 US DIS modules (Commodore will not Work) I can run these with 2 sensors and 2 ECU's. this will be done on my spare engine so I can make a stand to run it and get it operational before install. I will need to make all of the harnesses anyway.

Couple of questions
- Would it be easier to use 808 or VY ECU?
- I can use Commodore coil packs but need US modules, is this correct.
- With dual ECU's can I disable cold start/IAC on one so only one ECU has IAC

Thanks for your help, I will start a new thread soon in the conversion section.

cheers
Warren