SDM data used in Court - Plausable?

[Tazzi]

So I was reading through this incident here with a VE HSV back in 2010: http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/archive/ind ... 39421.html

I havent worked on the VE SDM's before. But, technically speaking, I would have thought there would be too many potential variables that would make such data invalid, or unsuitable in a court of law?

For instance, what if the VSS line was damaged prior and was reading out of whack? Geez, what if it wasnt reading at all and said 0kmh for the entire 5seconds prior? Wouldnt this make the information invalid as it doesnt make sense?
How about if the PPK value was set to some ridiculously stupid value by a tuner, where travelling at 50km/h shows up 200km/h?
What if (I know someone said it.. and its kinda..really.. stupid) the individual lost control hitting a curb at 70km/h, launching the car and wheel speed then increases over 200km/h before impact (just bear with the idea.. assuming airbag didnt go off from initial impact with curb!), does this mean they would be done with excessive speed and wreck-less driving?

Also, what if this information was wiped before the data was read out? What would they do then? Simply plug it back in, let it set the crash warning again.. but there will be no history of the crash to support all convictions?

Dont get me wrong, they obviously convicted the guy correctly! Just wondering if anyone has actually had experience with this, or has been in this sort of field before? Found it very interesting!

[antus]

I think its reasonable. Its not the only thing they use. They have crash investigators who can calculate an expected speed, who can inspect the road for slippery patches, can measure wheel lockups and the like. So if they do that and say "the evidence states you were doing between X and Y kms over the limit and you say "no I was doing the speed limit" and they say "your car tells us the same story as what we see..." then probably it is right. You still get a chance to explain yourself. If one of those other scenareos really happened then the crash investigators would be able to observe that from the state of the road at the time and match it up to your story and make the correct call. The SDM data is for when your story doesnt match the evidence on the road. If you pcm was tuned incorrectly, you would want to be reporting this at the time, and they could verify that. If your story was true it'd hold up, and they would probably throw other charges at you for driving a non-ADR or non-legal configuration which caused a crash instead

Heres a good article on what happened for an insurance claim in 2014.

What was of particular interest in these details is that 1.5
seconds prior to the airbags being deployed (when the crash
occurred) the member was travelling at a speed of 57 MPH
(91.7Kph) with the throttle at 100% and the accelerator pedal
depressed at 100%. The vehicle was also redlining at 6500
RPM’s. What this tells us is that the member was driving with
his foot flat to the floor until he applied the brake a half
second later when he lost control and it was too late. The
speed limit was 50kph and the member was travelling a
whopping 41kph above the speed limit, which is dangerous in
any circumstance.
The member was re-interviewed and surprised at the evidence
we were able to obtain. He could not offer any defence to the
irrefutable evidence on his reckless driving and chose to
withdraw his claim and arrange his own repairs.

[Tazzi]

Ah yeah, I forgot about the crash investigators. Working out the speed from the skidmarks and distance traveled ect. I guess the SDM would just be good supporting information.

Hahaha. and thats probably true, you would get off of one charge, and they would throw multiple other charges at you instead

[antus]

I think its interesting how on a drive by wire car they give you throttle % and tps %. So if there was a bug in the pcm and it went full throttle without you commanding it, that would be visible in the data.

Similar to: http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/44 ... nsequences

[VL400]

Yeah its interesting to watch the TPS with torque management vehicles too - commanded != to delivered

There was a lambo seized in Perth a few years ago while being driven by the owners mechanic .. http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 5817075988
The amusing part of the story followed when the Police tried to get data from the car and messed it up .. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-na ... 17ym8.html
Might not try that one again!

[Tazzi]

I remeber hearing about that Perth Lambo one. WOW.., $50,000 damage to the electronics. Absolutely incredible.

[Charlescrown]

Many of the crash investigators in NSW are Police with a motor mechanic background put through a basic course and let loose to do the job. I know of many cases where their evidence has been dismissed or proven wrong in court. However saying that this is an interesting article and it does demonstrate the simplicity to retain data. What will the future hold. Planned OBD3 is big brother at it's best. Logging your trips and sending emission data out (no need for annual tests) and then sending you a notice in the post.

[vlad01]

fuck that!

I'll drive my old holdens til I die.

[Tazzi]

Many of the crash investigators in NSW are Police with a motor mechanic background put through a basic course and let loose to do the job. I know of many cases where their evidence has been dismissed or proven wrong in court. However saying that this is an interesting article and it does demonstrate the simplicity to retain data. What will the future hold. Planned OBD3 is big brother at it's best. Logging your trips and sending emission data out (no need for annual tests) and then sending you a notice in the post.

...Monitor data being sent... reverse engineer... send back zero emissions .. profit

I'll find it even more amusing if it logs your gps location... fuck Id hack that to be permanently set in the north pole.

[antus]

I dont think it'll be able to 'send back' anything.. its not conceivable to put gsm access in all new cars. More likely scannable with a plug in or close range tool. Does anyone have a link to the standard? Its the kinda thing were rumours could fly... would be better to read the actual specification.