Mag's OSE 12P Thread

[mag]

Back with results from long period of day to day running of the new $12P v104 tune, wanted to give ve learn a good chance to "correct" the original ATFY tune. Read cal from ecu & still getting large changes in VE table when compared to the original tune. May be should disable VE learn & see what blm has to say, although from memory when first started logging original tune blm was within +/- 10%.

[yoda69]

Mag,
Is the carbon canister purge (CCP) system hooked up or not.
I don't see any settings for CCP in the in $11/12 xdf's I have so assume it runs fairly constantly (On the VT and later it is ECU controlled).
When there is a high amount of fuel vapour in the carbon canister and low engine speed it can affect the required fuel by up to 10% (this is considered normal), if it is only the low load and low engine speed area (low airflow / VE) that is being affected this maybe the problem.

yoda69

[Holden202T]

vn/vp/vr v6's have two tubes connecting to the motor, one for the actual fuel vapours to get into the engine, and another to actuate a vaccum switch on the canister, im not really sure of the exact settings of the vaccum switch but im assuming its similar to a vaccum advance on a dizzy, only at high vaccum it will open the canister to allow purge.

no solenoid in it like the VS onwards ecotecs.

either way there shouldn't be much difference in a ve table going from stock tune to 12P unless something is wrong .... maybe even just an exhaust might change it that much, could also be that something else in the tune is out of whack and causing alot of changes.

i guess the other thing also is if a whole area has been offset then maybe there is a reason for it, but if its just one or two random cells having the ass drop out of them then thats not normal.

MAG: post up a before and after cal/bin of the ve learn, i'd love to see what its done to the ve table.

[yoda69]

It maybe there is something wrong with the purge system still.
If those 2 hoses are hooked up backwads or the vacuum diaphragm for thevacuum switch has a hole in it, it could cause problems.
I had problems with a mates VR where the fuel pressure regulator had a hole in the diaphragm and was leaking petrol into the throttlebody through the vacuum hose.
Easy way to check is pull of the vacuum hose and see if there is any fuel in it.
I agree it would be good to see a log and a before and after VE table.

yoda69

[mag]

Attached are before & after cals. Will look into purge system function although hoses are in correct locations & fuel pressure reg was replaced after it developed a pressure leak & caused hard starting. The before VE table is lumpy because of my rough editing, $5D ve table resolution not as good as $12P & had to fill in a few colums by hand. The large spikes in the "after" ve table are the concurn, otherwise car drives ok.

[vn5000]

You must have mixed your files up. You have ve values of 50% in 9600 rpm range in one cal and 0% in other cal at 9600 ,i doubt you would of even been in this range.
Also why have you changed so many parameters from original 104 bin.
Ithink you need to start from scratch.

[Holden202T]

You have ve values of 50% in 9600 rpm range in one cal and 0% in other cal at 9600.

they are both the same to me other than the ve learn changes in the middle of the tables....

the other thing i have noticed, when going from a 5D bin file to 12P you gain ALOT more clarity in the RPM and MAP so you probably will find some of these values will change because of that. (ie. the 65 75 85 kpa cells and all the 1000 1400 1800 2200 rpm cells)

i do agree the drops in the 40kpa area are pretty aggressive, this may be to do with the purge canister ... might be worth checking the pipes etc to make sure they are right.

also i'd be logging while you drive along on a flat ground area and cruise at 1000-1600rpm and see if you can get it to sit in the 30-50kpa areas at all and see what the o2 is doing .... the fact that its ramped all the cells in that area into a nice curve makes me think thats where its supposed to run....

also the DFCO stuff you've changed, are these changes to suit the ATFY settings ?

you'll also notice that some of the higher kpa numbers have increased in value, if this is correct then it probably means your running lean at WOT and quite possibly with increases to the WOT numbers you might go over the maximum VE you can use ..... that being the case, you might be best off going back to the pre ve learn cal and offset the injrate then start from there...

have a look at a recent log and see what the WOT o2 readings are, if they are much below 800mv then your most probably running lean.

[vn5000]

Yeah youre right holden202 it was me who mixed files up
Not sure Mag what setup youre running but it looks like youve got cal set for 2 bar. Either that or ive mixed the files up again.

[mag]

Thanks for the comments Holden202 & VN5000, I did not help my cause by calling the xdf an adx file. Cal is set for 2 bar & I am running my diy 2 bar map getting ready for the SC14 when I get a chance to fit it. Hope to get a second car soon to give me time to work on the vn.

Will look into the purge cannister. DFCO is pretty much ATFY except I lowered the kPa threshold from 30 to 20 make it more sensitive otherwise you have to drive over a cliff with closed throttle to get it to kick in. Average down-hill barely pulls enough vacuum & when a/c kicks in the additional load is enough to make DFCO drop off. Should DFCO work better than this?

Holden202, logs show o2 sensor goes 800mV & stays there on heavy load/WOT. I assume you are referring to the >90 % ve values that appear in some of the 85kPa cells.

But your question reminds me, was hoping someone could post a log with a good o2 as i want to confirm that mine is ok. It cycles on steady cruise but the pattern is far from clean sinewave & there are periods when it goes a bit crazy, . It does go rich (800mV) on WOT & lean (<200mV) when the throttle is cut from high load or on a long down hill.

[Holden202T]

well........ i wonder .... if you get the chance, put the stock map sensor back in and see what map readings you get one decel .... i would have thought i healthy v6 should pull 20 kpa easy .... and i was wondering if your ve table is dropping off like it is weather there is a variance in the diy map sensor readings and so the engine is actually at 20kpa but the sensor is reading 30-40kpa .... because that would explain what we are seeing.

my comment about the 90% ve in that area was thinking that if 85kpa has 90 % then its pretty certain 90 and 100kpa are going to be higher and theres not much more in there for them to be increased till they hit 100....