Kalmaker workshop vs pcmhacking method

[upyas]

Hi

Was looking at buying kalmaker workshop package, which includes street pro 3 as well.

I was wondering is this a viable option anymore?

from what i can see is that you need to buy security pals for each eprom you program using kalmaker ?

So basically you need to pay royalties for every car you tune.

Anyone use both methods have any advice if its a good way to go or not?

I also see that the support is very slow with kalmaker now, so buying pal's may take a while, just wondering if i should go all out and buy this workshop package OR buy everything i need from moates.net to use tunerpro rt instead.

cheers

cheers

[vlad01]

Just get all the gear here. I wouldn't even bother with the other options, they are just too limiting.

[upyas]

Yeah I was thinking this much, the PAL per eprom you burn is very off putting for me.

like your sig btw ahhaa

[Dylan]

I started with Kalmaker, haven't looked back.
All pricing and fees aside. Better code from here bug free, logging is way more advanced with these ADX files and tuner pro.
Tuner pro UI is way more intuitive and friendly with the latest laptop's. USB connectivity.

Enough said. Kalmaker can do the job though if you choose to.

[MAGP]

Not wanting to start a war over this but you asked the question so I'll answer it.

Operating systems aside (DOS vs Windows) Kalmaker is a little ahead to me BUT getting help with it is extremely difficult. Having said that I'm still learning to use TP5 so once I have that sorted and the flow of work becomes 2nd nature my opinion will probably swing the other way. Currently I can just jump into Kalmaker and do what I need to do and that's it but that's because I am used to it, TP5 may be more intuitive but I still need to learn it so I bear that in mind when critiquing a product. 11P & 12P are fine products and are in every way equal to or better than SP3s tunes (knock sensing aside because I'm still undecided on that).

The only real advantage I can see to Kalmaker now is the ability to do MAFless tunes (if a customer insists on it) with Workshop but even then with The1's custom code for MAF vehicles and the ability to fit and use more efficient MAFs the work involved in swapping over to MAFless doesn't seem to be worth the effort.

The last straw for Kalmaker, as you have found out, is the cost of the PALs. When there are other alternatives available I don't know how I could, personally, justify using it unless a customer insisted on it and understood there will be additional costs. In my opinion you will be better off learning how to tune with TunerPro and the files from here.

With regards to Moates, I have APU1 and like it but it only does pre MAF vehicles. I also have a complete set of ECMs/PCMs and, currently, 2 NVRAMs (1 11p & 1 12P) from here.

[upyas]

Thanks for the reply

What is needed to to the MAF based ecu's?

Not wanting to start a war over this but you asked the question so I'll answer it.

Operating systems aside (DOS vs Windows) Kalmaker is a little ahead to me BUT getting help with it is extremely difficult. Having said that I'm still learning to use TP5 so once I have that sorted and the flow of work becomes 2nd nature my opinion will probably swing the other way. Currently I can just jump into Kalmaker and do what I need to do and that's it but that's because I am used to it, TP5 may be more intuitive but I still need to learn it so I bear that in mind when critiquing a product. 11P & 12P are fine products and are in every way equal to or better than SP3s tunes (knock sensing aside because I'm still undecided on that).

The only real advantage I can see to Kalmaker now is the ability to do MAFless tunes (if a customer insists on it) with Workshop but even then with The1's custom code for MAF vehicles and the ability to fit and use more efficient MAFs the work involved in swapping over to MAFless doesn't seem to be worth the effort.

The last straw for Kalmaker, as you have found out, is the cost of the PALs. When there are other alternatives available I don't know how I could, personally, justify using it unless a customer insisted on it and understood there will be additional costs. In my opinion you will be better off learning how to tune with TunerPro and the files from here.

With regards to Moates, I have APU1 and like it but it only does pre MAF vehicles. I also have a complete set of ECMs/PCMs and, currently, 2 NVRAMs (1 11p & 1 12P) from here.

[MAGP]

Thanks for the reply

What is needed to to the MAF based ecu's?

From here? or Kalmaker? or Moates?

From here read this page viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3617 and use The1's custom code from here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2518

From Kalmaker you need Workshop specifically the programs starting with W40 up to W96 (20 programs all up) and a modified PCM which costs more. (I edited this line after I reread your question).

From Moates you'll need an Ostrich, a G6, a chip to suit the G6, and a burner like the Burn2.

Realistically speaking to do 1 car buying things from here is cheaper. If you are doing this professionally then Moates may be a viable alternative. To get support from Kalmaker you have to pay "full price" which isn't listed as far as I am aware on their page.

[antus]

I think many of us here started with Kalmaker SP3, including myself. We wrote 12P because we wanted windows support and it didnt seem to be forthcoming. The lack of security pal was a bonus (though most of us initially involved were only using it on one car at the time). The kalmaker SP3 hardware is compatible with ours by virtue of running in an '808 but ours has no facility for the pal as our code is not required.

Workshop might be something you want - we dont have a MAP option for MAF tunes, but in practice you can achieve good results with MAF tunes anyhow. The hardest thing about Kalmaker is requiring really ancient laptops for dos or win98. Also 12P/11P and the1's enhanced have other features Kalmaker does not.

[MAGP]

Also 12P/11P and the1's enhanced have other features Kalmaker does not.

I wonder if it may be worthwhile creating a thread that compares the 2 systems and then stickying it and putting it in the FAQ.

[vlad01]

I think that's a good idea as many people don't realize how far 12/11P and enhanced are from kalmaker in terms of requirements and features, limitations and a like.

One thing I admittedly overlooked when looking at kalmaker was the hardware requirements. Didn't realise how old it actually was and basically complete unsupported with my own personal arsenal of PCs

I guess that's what getting spoiled by EFI introduction with MS2 and 3 and then 12P and TP5 will do.