Spark advance below value?

[kilebantick]

Hey there everyone!

I've been recently introduced into this scene by a few friends of mine and am very slowly learning. Thus far I'm using the base SV3800 spark map in my $12p bin, just so I have a good base to work off and it's working fairly well this far.

The issue that I've come into (or I think I have) is that when at WOT and my spark table at a specific Map/RPM cell is asking for 25 odd degrees of spark, when I take a look at my laptop it's only running 15 degrees. I logged a bunch of WOT runs up and down the joint, mixing from cold to hot coolant, and spark always topped out at 15 degrees when WOT.

Is this normal? Is the definition file funny? Am I doing something wrong? Should I eat a toastie and ignore it all?

[Jayme]

post up a log and the bin for us to look at. without seeing any data, at a guess, it could be knock retard?

[Holden202T]

I find it hard to believe knock would be removing the same every time ... but could also be a max advance setting limiting it or the coolant contributions etc .... like Jayme says without more info we are playing darts in the dark.

[kilebantick]

I'm very very sorry, I forgot to mention that this was on a Series 1 VN V6 commodore. There is a knock sensor on the car but it isn't wired into the ECU at all (and I don't imagine the ECU would know what to do with it either!

I will record a log on the way to work . I am using $12p and the BLCD Petrol definition file (I think this is right, I'm still learning the names for it all!). I'll upload it here later on.

I pretty much mimmicked the SV3800 tune's spark map to have a base map to run off. Some of the more extreme spark figures I bought down a little bit (at some points it was commanding 58 or so degrees), and I bought my Kinj up a little bit to help reduce the chance of knock/leaning out, until I can get a wideband and some knock muffs onto it.

Thank you very much gents.

[Holden202T]

theres your answer then, im pretty sure the timing is retarded 10 degrees if the knock sensor is not connected up

you with need to re-connect it or if you don't want to use it then disable it in the tune and you'll get your timing back!!

I recall a mate getting a 304 commodore a while back, went like a sack of shit for that very reason!! you'll be surprised how much difference that 10 degrees makes too!

also on a side note I believe a S1 V6 will run a lot better on APNX tune ? its more suited to a S1 motor, where as BLCD is a VR motor and they actually run less timing and more compression than the earlier motor I think you'll find.

that said I have no idea how the SV3800 tune compares.

[Jayme]

use the apnx tune... its the series 1 v6 calibraiton , then edit it from there. the BLCD will run up to shit on a series one.
to turn off the knock sensor in the tune... "ESC params - Coolant temp enable" to 150 deg .

[kilebantick]

Jesus christ, thank you very much guys!!! Mammoth loads of help here. Yep, where I should've been hitting 25 degrees of spark it was only 15. TYVM!!!

Probably why I haven't been knocking LOL. Saved my motor!!!

Edit: I've looked through as many sources as I can and there's no real semi-easy achievable way to wire the knock sensor in properly. So, I'm just going with a set of knock muffs =).
Edit: Would it be safe to just copy the spark and VE maps across, or should I just upload the apnx bin? I'd rather not as there's a lot of other stuff I have to change, but I can if need be.
Edit again: Did as you gents suggested regarding disabling ESC through coolant threshold. It worked. It worked damn fucking well...!!!

Can I just copy the APNX Spark and VE maps across? I've got a lot of work put into the rest of the tune to get everything right is all.

[vs ss]

Just a question,but is the harness on the engine original ?
Cause if it is it should have the knock sensor wire there as all v6 commodores had a knock sensor as standard.

[Dylan]

Why do you say the ecu wouldn't no what to do with the knock sensor? Is it aftermarket?
Fit the knock board to the nvram and go from their.

[Holden202T]

you don't even have to solder the knock board to the nvram, you can plug the original memcal into the side of the nvram and use the knock board and limp mode stuff that way.

but yeah, i'm a bit lost as to why there is no knock sensor on this motor unless its been removed at some point.