What to monitor/ adjust in RT?

[krusty]

Using BLCF base to tune on a VP 5L and want to start making some gains on the street using only narrowband.

I fully understand that wideband is where it's at but just want to play with street tuning before we head to the dyno. Money= time on the dyno so don't want to waste either there!

What would you blokes experienced in TP recommend I do to make some gains?

One thing to note is I went RT the other day and the knock sensor didn't show one single little bit of knock at all. Is this a sign of a faulty knock sensor or just my good luck?

The car runs a 276 hyd cam and decent exhaust. Everything else is pretty stock.

What would be expected timing at cruise with say 10%TPS and then at say 3000rpm- 5000rpm with 70- 100% TPS? I've only tuned L67s using kalmaker and they run way less timing by the looks of things than the humble 5L. Just need a bench mark of sorts..

[Jayme]

depends on compreisson I spose, on stock compression will be somewhere round 27-28. above 5000 rpm start sharply increasing to 35 or so at 6000.
for fuel, if only using narrowband, just adjust VE to make the whole WOT run stay at the same millivolts, around 850 or so. then when you get the wideband on it, will already be close.

[krusty]

depends on compreisson I spose, on stock compression will be somewhere round 27-28. above 5000 rpm start sharply increasing to 35 or so at 6000.
for fuel, if only using narrowband, just adjust VE to make the whole WOT run stay at the same millivolts, around 850 or so. then when you get the wideband on it, will already be close.

It's stock comp Jayme. we built the engine but nothing amazing was done. Just rings, bearings, gaskets n seals. Problem was once the stock 250000km cam came out it bowed about 7mm! Hence the 276hyd and lifter/ springs combo are in.

I'll log it tonight and post it up for you guys to comment on afterwards. Funny thing is that the timing maps looked pretty much like you described already on the stock BLCF tune?

Of course AFRs will swing the power one way or the other regardless of where the timing is. Just that tha car actually felt a bit slow for something seeing that much timing. If I got 25deg timing into my L67 under boost safely it would be ridiculously fast lol

[Jayme]

you cant compare timing between 2 engines literally like that, its like apples and oranges, the whole idea of timing is that the peak pressure point of your power stroke must be around 15 degrees after top dead center to be perfect. now the spark plug just needs to fire at the right time so that by the time the pressure builds, it peaks in the right spot. things that affect the speed of the burn include fuel ratio, compression, piston / head shape and rpm. so the ecotec engine needs a lot less timing due to head hsape / compression etc. the old 304 just needs more timing to do that same thing coz its flame front is burning slower.


anyhoo, the stock blcf map is not the goods, its like 24 ish degrees. needs to look something more like this:

400 27.77
800 27.77
1200 28.48
1600 31.06
2000 32.32
2400 32.41
2800 31.9
3200 29.79
3600 28.13
4000 27.07
4400 28.13
4800 30.65
5200 32.83
5600 34.84
6000 36

[krusty]

O.k. a few inconsistencies...

Got these DTCs in MALFS from the Item lists after this log where I had made a few minor adjustments in Main spark advance vs MAP & RPM. Also raised the values in 20-100kpa VE as a function of MAP & RPM.

DTC 16- ECT UNSTABLE
DTC 36- VACUUM LEAK
DTC 55- ECM A/D CONVERSION ERROR
DTC 51- MEMCAL ERROR

Still felt gutless in the low end up to 2800rpm or so but I increased the timing and ve from that point on ever so slightly and felt a good improvement. Pulled some VE back in the lower range to help but wqs a bit anxious due to such high load at take off and not wanting to cause any issues.

I'm still baffled as to why we haven't seen any knok when the knock sensor is supposedly connected. Attached is the bin. If someone can have a quick squiz or diff it to a stock OSE$12P BLCF and check if I've enabled the knock sensor it'd be a relief!

Also for the life of me I cannot command the desired idle speed. Where do I do this?

[VL400]

The faults 16 and 55 are related to the analog 5v reference. Code 51 is a checksum error and i doubt its current. Might need to reset the fault codes and see what new ones happen. In the flashtool you can send a custom command f4,56,10 (click the calculate checksum box) and it will reset them or just remove the battery or EFI fuse for 30 seconds and will do the same job.

The knock sensor is still disabled, need to change "ESC params - Coolant temp enable" to whatever temp you want it to start working. Also enable "Process code 43" and "CEL enable code 43" flags. You have knock logging enabled which will mean the knock table will get filled with any knock events - need to run the car an then click "download bin from emulator" or restart TP so it grabs the latest calibration, it wont populate the knock logging table as you drive.

The idle speed can be adjusted using the tables "IAC - Desired RPM in Drive Vs Battery voltage" and "IAC - Desired RPM in Park/Neutral Vs Battery voltage".

[krusty]

All clear on those things Ryan.

I may have an old version of Flashtool because I can't see anywhere to send custom commands, calculate checksum included. I'm not plugged into the car at the moment so could that be the reason or should that function be available even when no going RT?

[Jayme]

you just not looking hard enough

flashtool cusotm command.JPG (49.93 KiB) Viewed 7981 times

[krusty]

you just not looking hard enough

flashtool cusotm command.JPG

Lol! Seems to be the story of my life ffs

[krusty]

O.k. made some progress tonight. Discovered that there is KR present now that the knock logging is actually enabled.

Played with spark advance a bit and also tweaked the VE a tad as the injector duty cycle looks to be maxed out. Need to learn more here, firstly how to trick the ecu into thinking the injectors are still in their capacity and secondly how to know that the injectors are actually genuinely in need of an upgrade. I'll play with inj rate a bit to fudge this around and then start with VE again

I'm pretty sure that they will need upgrading which is an option for the owner of the car but don't want him to spend unless he has to....

Back to the KR. At first it was in the same spot every time (rpm wise) then after getting some more power into her and the shift extensions going higher and higher it became clear that the KR was always just before the shift and not really rpm specific. Knock is only happening at WOT and not at 80%tps or the like. Is this something to worry about or just a ecm calculated KR? The "Knock Detected" box on the dash screen shows all clear from start to finish which tells me it's calulated retard and not actual knock from the sensor itself.

Just after some input on what I'm doing wrong/ right and where to find some better bottom end. The car can barely turn the tyres and it only has light 235/45 r 17s on it. The owner has made a request that he can be able to smoke 1 set of rears by the end of the week at least and I think that's fair enough lol