Immortalities totally random thread

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby immortality » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:44 pm

Not an issue? Worn components means there is steel floating around in the oil and proves that the oil isn't performing the true high load/stress test. I've seen em bad enough that there was very little lifter pre-load which generally = noisy lifters which is a common enough issue on our V6 motors.

Driving a motor hard isn't necessarily bad as long as you don't exceed the limits of the motor like valve bouncing/limiter bashing etc

I'm really happy that you like the expensive oil, I've found I don't need it and going by the fact the engine runs better now than when I got it almost 100,000km ago I'll stick to what is working for me :)

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby shadetreemechanic » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:53 pm

That would be very fine metal in suspension from those cups and done over a long time, which really should be filtered as soon as the oil cycles through the filter. You definitely don't need high zinc oil for the 3800 v6, proof is in fact the sequence IIIG test itself that they happen to perform on these exact engines (even modded to run flat tappets). What you saw was probably lack of changes or using some god awful oil on top of long intervals.

Sorry didn't mean to knock your choice of oil, merely found the long interval a bit curious (you did say the engine isn't abused so really it should be just fine).

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby immortality » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:25 am

You assume all the oil is filtered. At the end of the day, if the zinc provides extra protection why not use it?

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby vs ss » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:02 pm

I’ve had my vt on penrite mineral oil with full zinc (changed between 10-12k)since I bought it at 65k. The car has now done 402k and has never been apart for any reason except fitting the high lift rockers straight after I bought it and even the rear main seal is still dry. It gets a good lift under the belt daily but I do have a bit of mechanical sympathy these days. My misses has a vx Calais emotec has the same service parts and oils etc and has now ticked over 300k and apart from the inlet gasket has never had any issues either. They both run and sound almost as good as when we got them with still plenty of poke in them. They might use half a liter of oil between changes which is stuff all considering the ks. Now I am only going on what I see and test cause I’m not going to pull one apart to have a look. ;) But I’m certainly satisfied with what oils etc I use to keep using the same one.
You’re right immortality, you would be surprised how much gets bypassed from the filter when cold and high rpm.
This is something that would get debated to the moon and back and still never agree on. I’m just going by my own experience
Although not really related to this thread,I change my trans oil quite regularly and use the same ol dextron mineral oil and they have never been built or apart either :shock: ( apart from filter changes) I will certainly continue on doing it how I do and use the oils I do, yes there could be better stuff around but I just go on my real world experience.However you choose to do it is up to you.

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby shadetreemechanic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:41 pm

immortality wrote:You assume all the oil is filtered. At the end of the day, if the zinc provides extra protection why not use it?


Yes we can assume all oil is filtered over the course of time, else why bother with micron efficiency filters?. Not instantly but it will happen and in the mean time the particulates are perfectly fine in suspension.

Zinc really will kill cats over time or at least poison them to reduce efficiency, contributing to why old cars exhaust stinks over new cars (it's not an oil burning issue since even new cars are known to burn heaps of oil but a catalyst failure).

Edit: btw it's interesting the Penrite premium mineral isn't so called full zinc, looks like they kept it within the spec of API SM/SN phosphorus mass even though they technically didn't need to since the viscosity grade is exempt)...so i guess all this debate has been for naught, at least when it comes to this specific oil :lol:
Last edited by shadetreemechanic on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby shadetreemechanic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:48 pm

vs ss wrote:Although not really related to this thread,I change my trans oil quite regularly and use the same ol dextron mineral oil and they have never been built or apart either :shock: ( apart from filter changes).


Yeah I agree with this, the 4L60E definitely prefers the mineral fluid versus the newer synthetic Dexron spec fluid, this is one that I also stick to...have to change it bi-yearly but.

Have anecdotal evidence that synthetic fluid makes 'em go bad. Mine also runs strong while copping loads of daily abuse (just no track days or burnouts, i'm not keen on killing and have to replace it)

And speaking of trans filter changes this is another interesting thing, I've been too lazy to actually change mine and debating it over many years (yes, quite lazy... also hate the smell of atf and don't want it all over my face :lol: ) But as far as I can tell, they don't really need a change, they're more to protect the trans from larger debris and from what I gather, by the time that filter actually clogs the trans is toast anyway. Could be wrong on this but mine hasn't been changed in more than decade and still shifts just fine.

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby delcowizzid » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:42 pm

My vx hasn't had an oil change in over 100000km lol I've screwed 1 filter on over that time and top it up every couple of months with whatever I have handy sometimes hpr30 currently gulf Western that came out of a drag car after a weekend of racing haha trans has never had the pan off or fluid added since I've owned it got it around 340000km at 540000 now
If Its Got Gas Or Ass Count Me In.if it cant be fixed with a hammer you have an electrical problem

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby immortality » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:41 am

Well it definitely was suffering from some spark plug fouling which was noticeable by how it was behaving. On Monday the cold start idle was crap but on Tuesday after it had been on a motorway run the previous day it idled fine. On the weekend it did learner driver duties so lots of time idling and low speed driving...

I've tweaked the tune, added a touch more idle timing, added a touch more timing to the entire ignition map and leaned out the open loop idle a bit too which should help keep the plugs clean when doing the stop/start traffic dance. I'll give it a few days to see how it goes.


shadetreemechanic wrote:
immortality wrote:You assume all the oil is filtered. At the end of the day, if the zinc provides extra protection why not use it?


Yes we can assume all oil is filtered over the course of time, else why bother with micron efficiency filters?. Not instantly but it will happen and in the mean time the particulates are perfectly fine in suspension.

Zinc really will kill cats over time or at least poison them to reduce efficiency, contributing to why old cars exhaust stinks over new cars (it's not an oil burning issue since even new cars are known to burn heaps of oil but a catalyst failure).

Edit: btw it's interesting the Penrite premium mineral isn't so called full zinc, looks like they kept it within the spec of API SM/SN phosphorus mass even though they technically didn't need to since the viscosity grade is exempt)...so i guess all this debate has been for naught, at least when it comes to this specific oil :lol:


Our old VS stank sometimes, that bloody sulphur smell even though it was on the good oil so I don't think it would have been zinc poisoning. I believe over fueling can cause similar issues.

Looking at the Penrite info, the stuff I'm using is about 1000ppm zinc, which I think is more than double what is found in the newer API are AECA rated stuff.

delcowizzid wrote:My vx hasn't had an oil change in over 100000km lol I've screwed 1 filter on over that time and top it up every couple of months with whatever I have handy sometimes hpr30 currently gulf Western that came out of a drag car after a weekend of racing haha trans has never had the pan off or fluid added since I've owned it got it around 340000km at 540000 now


That sounds exactly like my father in law, puts in other peoples used oils....

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby shadetreemechanic » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:24 pm

Mine used to foul a couple of plugs at the back i think until i ditched the plastic bellmouth, got more low end poke although it idles rougher but plugs are all about evenly coloured now.

Yeah it's actually just under 1000 zinc, standard level is about 600-800 in modern oils. Double would be around 1600 when you really start getting too much i think. Penrite labels anything over 1000 as full zinc and over 1800 as full zinc+

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Re: Immortalities totally random thread

Postby immortality » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:23 pm

So after the initial poor running I altered the tune a bit. Added .7° timing through the whole ignition map. Added 1° in the idle table and leaned out the idle a touch more. I also stuffed around with the PE settings a bit and for the most it's been running good. The only thing is the engine has been running warmer than usual (in traffic) the last few weeks and when it's real cool in the mornings we get a bit of belt squeal? I was thinking possibly the water pump was knackered because I took the belt of and turned by hand and it felt a bit stiff to turn which doesn't seem right for the mileage. Another possibility is the much warmer weather we've had the last few weeks? Anyway, ripped the water pump off this arvo. Pump still feels like new bearing wise? No corrosion on the impeller either. But have fitted new water pump with cast iron impeller regardless. Just doing a cooling system flush and then refilling with water and Penrite additive. No pics because I think we've all seen/done enough wp changes?

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